YACHT met him in autumn 2022, which was the last interview we had with the exceptional sailor. Wilfried Erdmann was already in poor health at the time. The interview is one of the last insights into the soul of this extraordinary man, an impressive contemporary document. To remember Germany's famous sailor today, we are publishing the interview here once again in its original, unabridged and unedited version.
End of September 2022:
YACHT has visited Wilfried Erdmann many times, mostly on business, sometimes privately. Often it was about new projects or the categorisation of previous achievements. This time it's about the decision to give up sailing, the how and why, and what Wilfried Erdmann advises others to do when it's time to stop. Not an easy topic.
His voice is slightly brittle when he answers. But although he sometimes thinks for a long time, the sentences come remarkably easily to his lips. His dry humour often shines through. His eyes are alert, just like his mind. And the memories bubble out of him as if his great journeys were only a few months ago, not decades.
Wilfried, many people were very concerned when they heard about your illness. How are you doing?
I am undergoing long-term treatment. We'll have to wait and see. That's all I really want to say about it.
You seem lively. Have you found a breath of fresh air?
Well, I certainly didn't find it in hospital. It's a different, strange world for me - after so many years without ever having seen the inside of a hospital.
When did you realise that something was wrong?
In Gotland, on our last trip to the Baltic Sea. That made me throw up. That was the first time in 60 years of sailing, and not even in difficult conditions. We arrived in Kappeln weeks later, had the boat taken out and I went to the keel, still wondering why it was so shiny, not a single pockmark on it - and that's when it hit me, long onto the floor! That's how it started. But I didn't know what I was missing then.
There is a sense of melancholy in the lines you wrote when you made it public that you were giving up sailing. Is it easier to deal with now that you've made the decision and announced it?
The decision had been on the table for some time. Is it easier now? (sighs) On the whole, the years have been good for me, all things considered. You get down in the dumps now and again in life on land, don't you? And some things are even harder at sea. Sometimes things change very quickly. To have experienced that for almost 60 years! In any case, the beginning was nice, very nice. It helped that I had no idea about sailing. I don't want to say that I was untroubled from a nautical point of view. I was often criticised for that. But I had previously been at sea, in commercial shipping.
On the trip, we thought about how often you had already sworn off sailing.
Yes?
There are moments on every long journey when you think: "I don't like it anymore, that's it, over and done with."
It's probably like the lectures. There is the last one. And the very last one. My last lecture was in Switzerland, and it was one of the best: great organiser, wonderful audience. But then I did another one, in Kiel. I did it for a friend, a doctor who is also a sailor.
So - how many times have you said goodbye to sailing?
(Think long after)
In the book about Astrid's and your journey around the world, you wrote in the appendix in the chapter "Nothing special - just a few perceptions": "I think that satisfies my longing for the great freedom, now I don't need sailing any more."
Yes, that was the case - but only for a few years.
Then you're off again, non-stop. Did you actually think about quitting after that?
No, that was far too nice! Overall, I really enjoyed Kiel to Kiel. With my own boat, which I kitted out myself. It was very exhausting, but also nice. From Kiel, that's a pretty tough nut to crack: along the Danish islands, into the North Sea, then the English Channel, you're almost flat until you pass Ushant. Phew! But it was the first trip on the brand new ship. That's something else. It was nice! That I actually managed it in such a short time: ordered in January 1984, delivered in July, sailed on 8 September. And I was still in a really good mood, wasn't I? Do you remember, Astrid?
Astrid: Above all, you always cycled to Eckernförde and back every day. A rucksack full of stuff.
Wilfried: From a sporting point of view, that was good. I was so on the move. Even on the boat: in, out, there was always something to do or organise. I benefited from that.
Does it help that there is still your "Kathena nui" that you can go to when you feel like it? Would you like to have it back next to your house, in the meadow?
I'm not like my mother-in-law. When she came to visit, she didn't sleep in the house. She always climbed a ladder onto the boat with her dressing gown flowing. She was even more in love with the boat and the sea. That doesn't happen often.
Astrid: She lived on her boat until she could no longer do so. But there were other reasons for that: It rotted. They had used wood that was too fresh when building it.
Does it still hurt, the thought of never sailing again? Is there a void in your heart? Or do you say: All right, let's move on!
Well ... we can't really talk about "moving on". But as you know, it has to end. When I was 60, I thought I'd had enough. But as you've seen, there was more to come. Actually, I never wanted to be older than 60 ...
Astrid: ... as a sailor ...
Wilfried: ... no, as a human being!
Astrid: I see.
Wilfried, you can't quite give up sailing after all. You've written a book about your mother-in-law, Ingeborg von Heister, Germany's first great single-handed sailor, which will be published soon. And you've just been to the new sailing fair in Flensburg. Was that your very last appearance?
My role model was also still ill at the fair: Bernard Moitessier. I saw the pictures in a French sailing magazine. He didn't look well. And if it works for me, I thought, then I'll do it too.
There was an incredible wave of sympathy for your announcement that you were quitting sailing. More than 100 comments on Facebook alone, each more compassionate than the last. How did you take it?
Astrid: I read it to him and he ... barely reacts. "Yes, fine," he then says. But we also get so many letters, emails and phone calls. But that was really special.
Wilfried: I never had the kind of exuberance that is common these days. Some people sail a piece and immediately get a page-long report, have thousands of fans and have everything paid for. I set off without making a big fuss about it, with almost no money. I had to earn extra money by working on the road. Nobody knew me except Astrid. I sailed alone, without papers or anything else. And then I arrive in Heligoland. That was quite unusual.
The next day the "Bild" newspaper was there, with a photographer. How did they know that? But they were really nice, bought me food, cigarettes and put a note in my shirt. The editor was a sailor, a real Hamburger, not the kind you're used to. Everything that appeared in the newspaper afterwards was true. Then came the DSV. And it really hit me in the sack as a sailor. That really hit me. A lot stuck with me.
The "Bild" man looked at my logbook, he understood that I was travelling the world alone. Then he flew Astrid to Cuxhaven and after that we stayed together until today. That's actually everything.
You were somehow lucky with each other.
Well, Astrid has also added a little something.
Astrid, laughing: "A little something", I can live with that ...
Is our impression deceptive, or do you not like to talk about the end of sailing so much as about what you have experienced?
I can tell you more about my younger years and the time before my first ride.
Astrid: But they don't want to know that!
Wilfried: I lived in Hamburg for two years and often drove past your editorial office. And every time I asked myself: Should I go in there? But then I thought: I don't even have a boat yet. And then I first went to sea and saved up some money. When many people say today that sailing is expensive - that was already the case back then.
There are many people who are wondering what to do with "Kathena" now. Do you want to sell?
Well, there's always someone who wants to buy them, most recently Philipp Hympendahl. But then I still have a son. And Kym doesn't want us to sell. There'll never be another cabin like it, he thinks. Although it's not boat-building work - the screws in the extension aren't screwed in. But then there are the follow-up costs. So I'm keeping her for now. She's now in the hall at Mittelmann in Kappeln, and she's doing well there.
Astrid: I recently had a toilet installed in front of the main bulkhead.
Wilfried: "Kathena" is in really good condition: not a bit of corrosion! When we had the underwater hull redone, there was nothing to be found. Perfectly fine! There wasn't much electrics in there either.
Astrid: Well, I would like to sell them for exactly this reason.
There are even plans to organise some kind of fundraising campaign so that you can get the money you want and keep "Kathena" open to the public.
Astrid: We saw "Gipsy Moth" in London. That was a sad sight. It was outside, on land. People could go in the back and out the front again. That's not even possible here. And you can only fit three visitors in at a time. When I think back to how many people queued to see it at boot Düsseldorf in 2002. That was great. But outdoors ...? I don't know!
Wilfried: Well, no!
You always realise at such moments how many people you have inspired to sail.
That was already the case after my first trip. The report in YACHT was followed by three pages of readers' letters! That was an unusually high number.
Are you still often at sea in your thoughts?
The last time I did that was simply because I was writing a new book. I'm not that talented as an author, I write a lot of things twice and then I read a lot. I'm slowly running out of time now. I've already got two pairs of glasses here. I'm really annoyed because I still have so many books that I've always wanted to read - for the next trip. I wanted to do one more. But that's probably not going to happen.
What did you have in mind? Another solo?
Yes, you have already reported on the destination, an island, in YACHT.
Where, in the Baltic Sea?
No!
North Sea?
Nope.
High latitudes? South Georgia?
It's not far away. It has something to do with ice. But I think I'm too old for that. One of my favourite books is set there, by Isabelle Autissier: "Heart on Ice". And it's like this: you can't sell trips well anymore. There are hardly any publishers who pay for such stories any more. I was lucky in the past with "Stern". I could almost buy a boat from an exclusive story. Unfortunately, that's over now. You used to get 100 marks for a photo in the "Hamburger Abendblatt". Today you get nothing at all. Today you have to invite the editor of the newspaper to dinner yourself, that's how tight they are with money.
Most young people don't even know that. They hope that someone will pay for their journey. But who will that be? And the older people who have a boat and the money are too comfortable or too tied up in their jobs - or too old for a demanding trip.
Astrid: We keep hearing from boat builders that people hardly ever sail their boats any more. But they don't want to stop either.
Quitting is difficult! We would have thought that it would be easier for you, Wilfried, because you haven't left anything out.
(Shakes wordlessly shakes her head)
Or is something still open?
Just sailing at all is enough for me. Of course, it also depends on the destination, the weather, whether something happens or not.
But you don't have to prove anything to yourself anymore. You've achieved everything you set out to do.
I was never into that. I didn't sail for the public, for fame, but for myself. I never applied for prizes either. Otherwise I wouldn't have stayed in Alicante for a year on my first circumnavigation. I really liked that life to start with.
What do you think about in quiet moments?
(laughs) Mistakes I've made. I sometimes think about it: my first time in the Atlantic. It took me a long time. But it was also nice. And the destination: the West Indies! The very first day on St Vincent. Oh ...! It was a simple village back then, with just one quay - I was the only ship there, with a woollen blanket as an awning. That's how it was. Oh well!
Are you going back to "Kathena" now, to clear out, to say goodbye? Or does it still hurt too much?
Nope! The other day I was on board with five NDR people. They really wanted to film below deck. That was ... it was very exhausting!
What advice would you give other owners on how to break up properly?
So, if you have a house with a garden, you're in good hands. Then you'll always have something to do. I wouldn't want to live in the city right now.
And how do you find the right moment to take the plunge?
Well, I didn't find it. I'm probably not the right person to give advice.
How difficult was it for you?
Heavy! If it wasn't worth anything to me, what would I have lived for all these years?
