Team Malizia: The skipper and his cook - Boris Herrmann on the new building

The hull for Boris Herrmann's "Malizia 4" has been baked in Lorient and is being fitted out. The christening of the new boat is planned for the end of June, before Team Malizia gets back to sporting action. In this interview, the skipper talks about the collaboration with designer Antoine Koch, the advantages of the new design and the hopes associated with it. Part 2 of this interview will be published on Easter Monday.

Boris Herrmann has just returned from Lorient. YACHT met him there for an interview and accompanied the new build over the last few months. In a first in-depth interview, the 44-year-old co-founder of Team Malizia and six-time circumnavigator provides some insights into the progress made.

Boris, as observers, like many Malizia fans we are looking forward to the creation of the new "Malizia 4". The hull has now been built and is being extended. There have already been the first sneak previews in your series "Born to Race". Is this an exciting new chapter for you and the team too?

For me, the most important thing is that everything goes according to plan. We did the main work two years ago. We've known what the boat looks like for a year and a half. Now it's mainly execution. Now we are working through the tasks step by step. There are hardly any questions left. I think we've discussed every detail. Even the thickness of the upholstery on the seats in the cockpit.

And how thick are they?

I think eight centimetres (laughs).

Okay, joking aside. You played a very active role in designing your predecessor boat "Malizia - Seaexplorer". For the new build, Imoca architect Antoine Koch the direction in co-operation with three teamsThomas Ruyant Racing, you and Banque Populaire with Loïs Berrehar. You will receive three sister ships in this order. How much Boris will still be in the new "Malizia 4"?

It's a bit different to the individualistic design last time. That was very much driven by me. In a very close collaboration between the architect (ed.: VPLP) and myself. There were a few unconventional ideas and also an unconventional form. Now it's more Antoine Koch. But it's also more than Antoine Koch. It is also: the three teams and their teams in turn. Ultimately, it is the input of a large group, but overall it is very strongly integrated with Koch.

Antoine Koch basically makes his ship." Boris Herrmann

Isn't it difficult when three teams design a boat together and all have their own ideas, but in the end there could only be one design?

Antoine Koch is assertive and did his thing. And that was also our intention. My intention and that of Thomas Ruyant. We also want to take care of other things and trust him. We believe he is the best and should do it.

Will there still be developments and solutions on the new boat that bear your signature?

Yes, for example with the systems and the ergonomics. Where does which display go, where is which seat, little things like that. With the fuselage, we have the bare box that we complete. And I don't know how the others do it. We didn't even ask any more questions because it was logical for us and Antoine Koch had partly planned it that way. There aren't 1000 options, it was all laid out quite straightforwardly.

Action on the new one: changing sides like at the SailGP

Where will the navigation seat be positioned, for example?

The navigation is located in the side entrances on the right and left with a view of the upcoming crew sailing. The navigator then runs over to the windward side - like the SailGP, if you like.

What other major topics have you been involved in?

Most of it is Antoine Koch, even though we kept giving him feedback during the development and discussions. He bounced the progress off us in a regular loop and saw how we all reacted. We were more involved in the discussions about the sails.

Interesting keyword: What will the sailing wardrobe of "Malizia 4" look like?

The sails have already been ordered. What you know. We now have one sail less, only seven, no longer eight. And they are similar to what we had on 'Malizia - Seaexplorer'.

Where are the differences, which sail was omitted?

You can leave out a small gennaker for a start, for example. Thomas Ruyant always sailed around with a very small jib. We didn't go down that route. In this respect, his boat will certainly have different sails to ours. And he will probably also have a few different blocks on deck, like rails for his jib and things like that. That's his quirk, this little J2. You can imagine it a bit like an IRC racing boat with a techplate, like he had on his last boat. That was actually quite nice. What he does on the new boat, he will present himself. But we don't think it's the right way for us.

Basic principle of the "Malizia" sailing wardrobe: as versatile as possible

What is he trying to achieve?

What Antoine Koch wants and believes. At this point, we're taking a different approach, have asserted ourselves for our boat against Antoine Koch and are doing our own thing as far as the headsails are concerned. But the last word has not yet been spoken for good. We'll see who's right in the end. You can also change and rebuild something like that again.

What is the conviction behind your setup?

We believe that a larger jib is easier and more versatile to use, so it is not as specific a setup as he is building. We have in mind that you want to change sails as little as possible. That with seven sails you have the widest possible range of use. We believe that this works better with a large jib, where you can tack and tack and more. And then you don't have to deploy the code zero so quickly. This has an influence on the entire sail wardrobe. If you make the J2 small, then of course the other sails also have to adapt a little.

So you're taking the more all-round route?

Exactly. His setup is rather specific. He also won the last Route du Rhum and the Jacques Vabre (ed.: now Transat Café L'Or) with it. Because these races lend themselves well to a triple-header set-up. A big J2 is a bit of a nuisance. It's then a very specific nerd discussion about how to optimise such a triple-headed setup. But if you sail Jacques Vabre or Route du Rhum, where 80, 90 per cent of the route is characterised by trade wind sailing and you sail the triple-headed setup from day three to day twelve, then a Ruyant simply wins the Route du Rhum. His setup is already the fastest. But outside of this special constellation, we think so, we have to be more versatile and make compromises in this area.

But can you also understand the Ruyant approach?

I understand his intention. Especially after he won two races with it and contested them quite dominantly. But at the last Transat Café L'Or, our boat (Red.: now "11th Hour Racing", formerly "Malizia - Seaexplorer", with Francesca Clapcich and Will Harris second) beat Thomas Ruyant (Red.: formerly "Vulnerable", with Ambrogio Beccaria on "Allagrande Mapei fourth) with our big jib, so to speak. He was no longer so dominant.

In typical conditions?

There were also trade winds. But they weren't any faster then. It's hard to say what else played a role. Will and Frankie did a lot of manual steering in the Transat Café L'Or. That also helps a lot. But they travelled around with just two headsails.

New "Malizia" starch for medium conditions and transitions

And were very successful with it...

I think our old boat is still the fastest boat on the beam in 18 knots of wind and waves. We won't be any stronger in the future, it will be a bit more difficult...

... but you win in other areas.

Let's put it this way: in one or even several races, the "Malizia - Seaexplorer" strength was not as worthwhile as the disadvantage in medium conditions. In any case, it is safer to build a boat that sets off first in medium conditions and in the transitions from light wind to medium wind. We believe that nowadays this is more important than the "wind and wave downwind" area.

Because one or two outstanding stages do not lead to overall success?

Of course, that was a bit deceptive with our old boat in the Ocean Race 2023. We won the Southern Ocean leg in dominant fashion. Just with the space sheet wave boat. But on four other legs, we had to fight hard, sometimes harder than the other crews, to keep up. In the end, we couldn't really prevail. But we have made the ship better since then. I believe that "Malizia 3" will continue to be a very strong ship.

With the new "Malizia 4", 'Malizia 3' will be our first benchmark to get there in the first place. Then we'll see what we can do." Boris Herrmann

In which areas had you improved "Malizia 3" before Francesca Clapcich took over as the new skipper?

If you look back to the last Vendée Globe, about a week after the start, when I was sailing room-sail in front of Senegal, I was in third place again for a short time. After that I sailed just as fast as the others, but always five degrees higher because I couldn't manage to foil as deep as the others. These five degrees worse downwind angles were then 130 nautical miles at the equator. We then worked significantly in this area.

"Malizia 4": less 'rocker', more pointed bow

That was already a partial answer to the question about the differences between the predecessor and the new building, between "Malizia 3" and "Malizia 4". What other important differences are there?

The new ship is one metre narrower. That may not seem so obvious, but it means less resistance in the water. We rely 100 per cent on the foils. The foils can be a little bit more stretched when you get narrower. We hope to start foiling with the boat in slightly less wind. And once the hull is on the water, it has less resistance.

The boat has less 'rocker' (ed.: longitudinal rounding of the hull, i.e. the boat has a flatter underwater hull). This less rocker makes it more difficult in rough seas and downwind, but then you can get through the sea better with a narrower hull. In addition, there is now a very pointed bow. It's a different approach to solving this problem, so that you can also sail on a beam reach. The old ship had a lot of rocker and a round bow. Now there are fewer rockers and a pointed bow.

So is it an obvious evolution of previous successful cookery imocas?

It is a further development of "Arkéa" and the last Ruyant boat. We believe that another good step has already been taken. "Arkéa came second in the Vendée Globe and was extremely strong. They were first at Cape Horn, then had a speed problem at this reaching high in South America. That was a lot of sailing with maybe 70 degrees to the wind. Not the easiest of conditions. We believe that we have now found a few things so that we can at least compensate for the speed deficit that the old Koch design had compared to "Macif" (editor's note: the Vendée Globe winning yacht).

Can you elaborate on the means of compensation?

It's mainly the foils, which we will present in detail later.

Part 2 of the interview with Boris Herrmann about the new "Malizia 4" building will be published on Easter Monday. As a reminder, click here for the article about the launch of the "Malizia 3" in summer 2022. The launch of "Malizia 4" is planned for the end of June.