With their latest show about the crossing of the Northwest Passage, they are now on a major tour of Germany for the first time - there are six dates in March. In the big YACHT interview, the two-time circumnavigators talked about their life between extremes, recipes for success in long-distance sailing, shattered South Sea dreams and plans for the future.
YACHT: You have 150,000 nautical miles of experience in your wake and have given hundreds of talks about your travels. What do you get asked most often?
Doris: The most common question is how we can afford it. Then comes the question about the worst storm and the highest wave. And where we liked it best. But it's hard to answer that. We usually like it where we are at the moment. Of course there are favourite places, but it's hard to say which are really the best.
Your last big trip was a long voyage to the dream destination of many sailors, the South Seas. How did you experience your time there?
Wolf: We were on Hiva Oa when the pandemic broke out. Two days before the lockdown, the mayor called a meeting with the long-distance crews of the 20 to 25 yachts there and said: Leave your boats here and fly home!
Doris: Of course, that wasn't an option. Then the lockdown came and we weren't allowed to leave the boat for a fortnight and the bay for 50 days. There was zero Covid on the island, but the fear was huge. In the end, we sailed in French Polynesia for 14 months.
There are certainly worse things!
Doris: Yes, that was great. But you still want to continue your journey at some point. Otherwise, at a certain point you feel like you're in an allotment community and it's all about where you're invited for a sundowner in the evening. That doesn't have much to do with sailing. Many members of our community eventually left the boat at anchor and flew out. Others have sold it.
There have recently been stricter rules for sailors in the South Pacific. Is something changing there?
Wolf: There was actually already the headline "Moorea at war with yachts".
Doris: No one was ever unfriendly to us, but we heard stories. During the pandemic, there were 15 yachts anchored at the most beautiful anchorage in the Austral Islands on New Year's Eve - otherwise this number is spread out over the year! A local man went from boat to boat and asked them to move on so that nothing like what happened in Papeete, where 200 boats were anchored. We were there two weeks later - all alone. Nobody came to us.
So is the Pacific still a dream destination for sailors?
Wolf: French Polynesia is only the first port of call. It's a huge territory where you can move around freely and get French wine, baguettes and cheese(laughs)! This comes at a price, but many sailors appreciate it. It's a bit European, but exotic enough. The really remote islands in the Pacific tend to be visited by fewer and fewer sailors. Even on our second circumnavigation, we learnt that more yachts used to come here. Eight to ten a year! Now hardly anyone comes - maybe two or three a year.
Why is that?
Wolf: Where there is no internet and no good supply, fewer and fewer crews are travelling.
Your next lecture is called "Pacific Odyssey". Was that really it?
Doris: We were actually on our way to New Zealand, always heading west. It turned into an odyssey through the Pacific and a back and forth of emotions. If you know that you can sail on at any time, you think it's great to be anchored somewhere for three months. If that's not the case, the thought quickly arises: panic - what do I do now?
Was that the most difficult situation of all your journeys so far?
Doris: Yes, we do. It's in us humans to plan, and not just for tomorrow. We have visions, a goal, we want to get there. Suddenly that's no longer possible. When the situation hadn't changed after 14 months, we had to make a decision and sailed back to Alaska via Hawaii. The boat then spent a few months in Canada.
You, on the other hand, were in Austria in winter. Do you find it difficult to regularly leave the ship at the other end of the world?
Wolf: Always! It's hell.
Doris: We naturally worry that we won't be able to come back for some reason or that something will happen to the ship. And there is always the feeling that something is missing.
What has been the most adventurous storage location for the ship so far?
Doris: Inuvik in Canada during the Northwest Passage. That was a nightmare.
Wolf: It was really wild, it wasn't a boatyard for sailing boats. There were no toilets, no water supply - nothing! We had to scoop water out of puddles to wash the boat. But Tahiti was also an adventure. The mobile crane there almost tipped over when it lifted the boat back in. But the boat really suffered in the Arctic.
In what way?
Doris: The ice has caused scratches. Our boat is also not insulated. As a result, the inside is like a stalactite cave. That's not good for the wood.
Wolf: Actually, our boat is completely unsuitable for high widths(laughs).
Doris: The cold also makes maintenance work impossible. You don't start painting up there. That's pointless.
You are sailing a Sonate Ovni 41 made of aluminium. Many people dream of a boat like this, especially for trips to high latitudes. What equipment or ship are you dreaming of?
Wolf: When we bought the boat, it had been on charter for twelve years and was completely run down with pitting. Today it's fine, we know it, and there's nothing that we haven't already serviced or repaired. That gives us confidence.
Doris: Every now and then I would like to have a water maker. It's a luxury to wash your hair and not have to think about saving water. And also to have enough drinking water. Of course, we have bottles with us and collect rainwater. But when we've been in French Polynesia for so long and it hasn't rained for a while, you start to wonder: What now? Fortunately, there were always other boats with water makers nearby to supply us.
What's stopping you from installing it?
Wolf: The price of 5,000 euros ...
Doris:... and our minimalist approach. It's worked so far.
Wolf: Certainly many things could be different on our boat. It could have larger tanks
or a stern bracket for the solar panels. But there is no such thing as a perfect boat. It's much better to live with the shortcomings, sail with them and spend the money on travelling. But everyone has different priorities.
Speaking of money: you earn your living mainly by giving talks about your travels. How did that come about?
Wolf: After our first circumnavigation, we sold our first boat and bought a minibus and three Leica projectors. We started out in sailing clubs. Everything else developed from there. We used to give 60 to 70 lectures in the winter, and we must have given around 1,000 in total by now.
Doris: The first lecture was called "Sea Nomads - Moments of a circumnavigation". It was such a hit that Austrians no longer call us Wolf and Doris - we are the sea nomads(laughs).
Corona brought all of this to a temporary standstill. What did that mean for you?
Wolf: Our house of cards has collapsed a little. Fortunately, I've been receiving a small pension from my time as a civil engineer for a year and a half. Together with our savings, it's enough to live on, but it won't last forever. We also haven't been able to take any fellow sailors with us in the South Seas recently.
Are you still satisfied?
Wolf: I am very grateful, we anticipated a lot. When we set off for the first time in 1989, Doris was 22 and I was 34. You have the choice to do that. You just have to do without.
Doris: That is true. The way we have built our lives, it works primarily through renunciation.
To what?
Wolf: On things that make everyday life expensive, like a concert, a trip on the ski lift - I usually do ski tours on foot. We cancelled the fully comprehensive insurance for the boat and never had travel health insurance. However, now that we're getting older, we're thinking about it.
You don't have any children together, Wolf has a grown-up daughter. Would such an intensive sailing life have been possible as a family with children?
Wolf: No, then you couldn't have travelled like that. It's a big commitment. We often live from hand to mouth. On our first trip, we helped with the grape harvest in France, did winter work on boats, recruited backpackers for backpacker hotels in Venezuela and went sailing with them. That's how we kept our heads above water. We started out with 50,000 shillings, the equivalent of 3,500 euros.
Courageous!
Doris: It was a different time. We were young. I was in my early twenties and thought that if it didn't work out, I could always look for a job again.
Is it still easy to work on the move today?
Doris: I don't think so.
Wolf: The new generation works online, in the home office on board.
Doris: We've met people who do programming on the road, work as boat designers for megayacht dinghies or for an environmental organisation. You just sit at a computer somewhere else. What you often forget are the poor internet connections. In the strategically important places with good Wi-Fi, you stay for weeks.
Does that mean you can still see enough of the country and its people?
Wolf: Well, we are dinosaurs. Many of us don't want to travel like we do. For others, sailing is a project for a few years, and then something else comes along. It's often no longer a lifelong passion, but a short period of life.
In your books, you repeatedly describe hair-raising situations, such as a risky anchor manoeuvre off Pitcairn. Do you become more relaxed in dealing with such risks over time?
Doris: The boundaries are shifting. Of course you worry when you go ashore and the anchorage is not one hundred per cent. We do it anyway because we are curious about things on land.
Wolf: We had dropped two anchors in Patagonia and travelled into the mountains to camp. Then a storm hit with 60 knots of wind - and our boat was anchored alone. I thought I was going to die.
What happened then?
Doris: We cancelled the tour and went back. There was a Chilean man by the boat who told us that he had already looked after the boat. Every now and then you have to take a risk.
Wolf: With increasing experience, you learn to deal with extreme situations better. Otherwise you wouldn't sail into the Northwest Passage at all. There are so many risks there! In Greenland and Labrador, there are bays everywhere where there are no charts with water depths, but rocks that you only see at the last moment. But at some point you live with it and get into the dinghy with the hand echo sounder. Or you go very slowly. South Sea lagoons are often not charted either, and we have also travelled over coral heads.
This also happened to you in the Bahamas - with an almost fatal outcome.
Doris: Yes, we really didn't expect such a dangerous situation there.
Wolf: Mistakes just happen, and you get annoyed afterwards. But most of the time it goes well.
What do you take for granted as a matter of course after more than 30 years of ocean sailing?
Wolf: We always make sure that we have a clear deck, without canisters, dinghies or any other stuff. Basically, you should always ask yourself: What really needs to work? The rig and the sails, that's what the boat depends on. Then a functioning engine, a proper anchor windlass and anchor gear. The steering must be in order, the rudder bearings must not be worn out and the autopilot must work. But whether I have a watermaker or not ... We completed the first trip without a fridge - and didn't live badly.
What are the most important points for you when it comes to sail management?
Wolf: On downwind stretches we sail butterfly with the genoa unfurled and the small jib on the cutter stay. We set it really tight on the mainsail side. It prevents rolling and still provides some pull. We always use the bullstander on the main anyway, even downwind.
And if it hacks?
Wolf: In my opinion, it is important to sail with a main for as long as possible. We keep seeing yachts that only sail with a headsail. That's not good, neither for the rig nor for the balance of the boat. When in doubt, I only sail with a triple reefed main in strong winds - but that's philosophy.
What advice would you give to someone who wants to become a good ocean sailor?
Both at the same time: Sail a lot!
Wolf: And don't hang around somewhere for too long.
So do you want to take it easy first or start with an Atlantic crossing straight away?
Wolf: It's a matter of type. There are people who get on a boat and sail across an ocean. We have always felt our way. Ten years ago, a project like the Northwest Passage would never have occurred to us!
Doris: It would have been too big, too difficult a step. We have grown as sailors over time.
Wolf: One of the first big steps was Cape Horn 2003, a huge challenge!
Doris: Back then, sailors in Ushuaia asked us why we didn't sail to Antarctica. But we wouldn't have dared to do that back then.
Wolf: That's the issue of shifting borders again. Now I would say: we do that with today's weather reports, of course. Back then, we had a weather fax with a 24-hour forecast - you had to make up the rest.
So many adventures, so many challenges: What gives you stability and security in life?
Doris: That we have each other. And certainly our little flat and our ship. That must be all right.
Wolf: Health is increasingly becoming a valued safety asset. We are working to ensure that we can continue travelling for a long time to come. We live reasonably healthy lives and do sport so that I can still climb into the mast on the Atlantic if a halyard gets stuck.
Could you also imagine a life completely on board?
Doris: Our base in Austria developed with age. During the first trip, there was only my old childhood room at my parents'. We lived there or with friends when we were back. We also used to have a rented flat in Vienna.
Wolf: But in the long run, it's unbearable just to visit, especially when you have to work. That's why we now live in a small mountain village and have a 60 square metre condominium. It even has a garden.
How does it feel to return there after months in another world?
Wolf: When we opened the door for the first time, I almost cried. How nice it is to have this flat, I thought.
Doris: Our roots are in Austria. We have not yet found a place where we would otherwise stay forever.
Are these home stays also good for combating travel fatigue and whetting your appetite for new trips?
Wolf: Yes, otherwise you won't appreciate travelling at some point. If you spend too much time travelling, you take everything for granted. It's also good for your head to be here every now and then.
Doris: Then it's not just about spare parts and the next anchorage. After a while in the daily grind, however, we get restless and have to set off again.
What is the return to the ship like?
Wolf: Even we then have to slowly take possession of it again until we feel comfortable and safe, until every lead is assigned again. That takes a week or two. I wonder how long it would take if we only started sailing now, at retirement age?
Which destinations that you have already visited would appeal to you again - and why?
Doris: Labrador and Newfoundland! Because there are only a few boats travelling there. The landscapes are fascinating, the people lovely and friendly.
Wolf: But we would also have loved to have seen a few more special Pacific islands that we hadn't been to yet - and that nobody goes to.
Which ones, for example?
Wolf: (Hesitates) I won't give that away(laughs).
Are you not attracted to Europe?
Wolf: I always say: That's where we sail when we retire(laughs). Sure, Scandinavia is certainly great. The whole North Atlantic: Iceland, Spitsbergen. Brittany, Galicia - all beautiful. Maybe we'll do that when we're no longer travelling so far away and want to sail less. Especially now during the pandemic, we'd like to have the boat here.
What advice would you give to sailors who want to go on a long voyage? You often hear "just set off", but that sounds a bit too simple.
Doris: It is indeed difficult to pedal away. It was different for us, I didn't have to give up anything. If I imagine that I had lived a normal life until today and was now travelling away, it would probably be a very difficult step. Giving up the security we think we have is more difficult in old age.
Wolf: All I can say is: they should sail now! There are more and more boats, it's exploded in the last five to ten years. The whole world is changing rapidly and not necessarily for the best. We are not among those who say that everything was better and more beautiful in the past. Every time has something positive and beautiful. On our first trips, we travelled with a sextant and wouldn't have dared to go to the destinations we go to today. It would have been too difficult.
Another tip?
Wolf: Many take on too much with the route and the dates. Some break down because of it. So you shouldn't do that, but give yourself a chance and just let things happen. It's good to start by travelling from A to B. Then you can decide whether to do C or D afterwards.
Has that always been your strategy?
Doris: Yes, always. There was only a rough plan for the season.
Wolf: Before the Northwest Passage, we said: We'll go to the north of Greenland, and if it turns out to be ice-free - then we'll risk it. If not, then we'll just have a look around up there, and that's okay too.
Do you miss something in your life, or would you like to do something other than sailing?
Doris: Every now and then I think Wolf would like to be more active in the mountains, which is difficult to combine with sailing. But we never get bored. So far, we haven't thought of anything better(laughs).
Wolf: We simply love sailing, even long offshore routes. You can breathe a sigh of relief. That's part of it, we really need it. It's like a fresh start every time.
Lecture dates in March 2023:
- Wednesday, 15 March: CH-BERN, Evangelisches Gemeinschaftswerk, EGW, Nägeligasse 9, start: 19:00, tickets: info@4-oceans.ch
- Sunday, 19 March: D-KÖLN, Volksbühne am Rudolfsplatz, start: 2:00 pm
- Tuesday, 21 March: D-BOCHUM, Langendreer station, start: 19:00 h
- Wednesday, 22 March: D-MÜNSTER, Friedenskapelle, Start: 19:00 h
- Thursday, 23 March: LIVE STREAM - Lecture FREI WIE DER WIND, Start: 19:30 h
- Friday, 24 March: D-KREFELD, Kulturfabrik Krefeld, Start: 19:00 h
- Sunday, 26 March: D-DÜSSELDORF, Savoy Theatre, start: 2:00 pm
Information and tickets for the dates in Germany are available at www.grenzgang.de
